Curse

Slasher of Darkness · May 17, 2009, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Hey all, as title states, which would be better for PvE, farming left aside, for general PvE. And why do you think so?

ZeAliX · May 17, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

My opinion? roll a sin.. what would better in PvE? totally depends on build..

Xsiriss · May 17, 2009, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Well you can go crit scythe on a sin which is basically a derv with a constant good damage output, as well as having protection in crit def and an amazing IAS in crit agility. The only thing you'd be missing out on would be the god forms, which kind of suck in pve even with eternal aura.

Then if you're bored of swinging scythe you can be a sin again, you may get bored of being a derv...

Deimos Zargarda · May 17, 2009, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Dervish, just cause they look better.

spirit of defeat · May 17, 2009, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Drev get PUG quicker.
Sin get quick start (faction is shorter)

wetwillyhip · May 17, 2009, 09:54 PM // 21:54

i'd say sin, they have SF , they farm, they tank, they are pretty fun to run in terms of weapon attack chain combos.

Chthon · May 17, 2009, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Sin, hands down.
Derv is a very second-rate class.

Lux Aeterna · May 17, 2009, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Sins are generally better, but it'll take a bit of thought to be useful / more than just a liability in pve. Generally any high dps build + death blossom and critical defenses will work, or as was said make a WS / onslaught crit scyther.

Stock up on skills for your account, then use tomes if you want factions to be an easy start. Go perma later.

Megas XLR · May 18, 2009, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Sins get spoiled with some pretty insane skills and farming builds.

Dervishes can do a lot of different things too, but they're not so spoiled. I personally have a Dervish over Assassin because of looks and versatility (If you go Crit Scythe, you can only be A/D, but Dervishes can be anything D/x). Dervishes also get the cool +25 hp buff and more elites and pve builds to use.

anaiya · May 18, 2009, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Sins HANDS DOWN...anyone saying derv needs to get their heads examined.

[build;OwpiMypMtIWDKDq/8WCgxcBdBA] > Anything a derv can do, ever.

And I'm not even going to talk about [Death Blossom][Moebius Strike][Save Yourselves!] spam...

Seriously, assassins are by far, the most efficient killing machines in PvE right now, better than warriors and much much better than dervs.

sportacus · May 18, 2009, 07:07 AM // 07:07

IMO a Derv is more fun to play, but a Sin is more generally useful. Although, if you're not really going to be farming or doing PvP, I can't really see the appeal of an assassin.

Megas XLR · May 18, 2009, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by anaiya

Sins HANDS DOWN...anyone saying derv needs to get their heads examined.

[build;OwpiMypMtIWDKDq/8WCgxcBdBA] > Anything a derv can do, ever.

And I'm not even going to talk about [Death Blossom][Moebius Strike][Save Yourselves!] spam...

Seriously, assassins are by far, the most efficient killing machines in PvE right now, better than warriors and much much better than dervs.

Alright.. so you have to choose between Scythe or Save Yourselves, which Dervishes can do simultaneously. You're also stuck to that scythe bar, no variability. Dervishes have room to use fun skills (with a scythe) like Lightbringer's Gaze, Sniper/Assassin Support, Asuran Summons, Finish Him, You Move Like a Dwarf, Pain Inverter, Air of Superiority, and my personal favorite - Light of Deldrimor in Shards of Orr. Also, Dervishes get +25hp along with +60hp and +24 armor when using Great Dwarf Armor. I hear Sins only get blocking, and the armor, but that means that they have less hp against magic and degen.

It's all about variability, and Sins got none. I'm sure running around with that same build will drive you into madness to start using Daggers which is pretty meh in PvE compared to Scythes (Why do you think everyone uses them). Sin armors are pretty bad compared to Dervish (Or any other class') armors too.

Hell, with proper tanking in areas with undead, you can kill whole groups with PBAoE skills alone - which is pretty fun.

anaiya · May 18, 2009, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megas XLR

Alright.. so you have to choose between Scythe or Save Yourselves, which Dervishes can do simultaneously. You're also stuck to that scythe bar, no variability. Dervishes have room to use fun skills (with a scythe) like Lightbringer's Gaze, Sniper/Assassin Support, Asuran Summons, Finish Him, You Move Like a Dwarf, Pain Inverter, Air of Superiority, and my personal favorite - Light of Deldrimor in Shards of Orr. Also, Dervishes get +25hp along with +60hp and +24 armor when using Great Dwarf Armor. I hear Sins only get blocking, and the armor, but that means that they have less hp against magic and degen.

It's all about variability, and Sins got none. I'm sure running around with that same build will drive you into madness to start using Daggers which is pretty meh in PvE compared to Scythes (Why do you think everyone uses them). Sin armors are pretty bad compared to Dervish (Or any other class') armors too.

Hell, with proper tanking in areas with undead, you can kill whole groups with PBAoE skills alone - which is pretty fun.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but nowhere in your post did I see any factual basis to prove that the sin scythe build is NOT superior to the Dervish's damage output. The ability to use SY! is contentious, as sins can arguably, do it better and dont HAVE to use scythes & SY! at the same time.

Besides, I'm not saying Sins = Dervs. I'm saying Sins > Dervs.

PS: Variability is not a consideration when discussing what is the optimum or superior profession here. If you want to run weird builds, then play whatever you want, no amount of informed decision making matters. But if you are going to talk builds & best solutions, then gtfo with that BS.

Megas XLR · May 18, 2009, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Huh, I didn't talk about damage because that's not the only thing to worry about in PvE. I did get a little too specific though.

Assassin = k damage

Dervish = fills in niches and does really good damage too

Since when isn't variability not a matter of discussion in picking which class for PvE? You're so closed-minded in that OH SHIT I GOT CRITS IM GOD-LIKE EVERYWHEREEEEEE.

Honestly TC, you can play anything in PvE and do really well if your team is atleast half-assed balanced. You should play which profession you think looks better, has funner skills, and what your gut feels like will stick with through all the campaigns. It's probably the most generic answer, but it's also the most honest one.

anaiya · May 18, 2009, 12:14 PM // 12:14

It is also inapplicable. You admit that the Sin does more damage, which is all I want to prove. Now if OP wants to have a substandard character in PvE, thats his choice.

Forgotton200 · May 18, 2009, 12:32 PM // 12:32

PvE effective profession:

General PvE: Warrior.

Farming: Assassin.

Assassin is a great physical in general pve as well though(much better than a lolderv.)

tldr: Assassin > loldervish.

MuC · May 18, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Sin. Their Critscythe build is imba. You can also play dagger build with SY. Dervish is like boring...

reaper with no name · May 18, 2009, 02:56 PM // 14:56

9 times out of 10, Assassins are better than Dervishes. I've never played a sin, but my main is a derv, and if you lurk around the dervish board for a while you'll find that sins are far better at using scythes than dervs are (as are warriors).

Sins get critscythe, SF, and MS+DB.

There are only 3 derv builds I know of that can beat a sin at anything. They are AoD (hex removal), AoM (condition immunity), and WS+SY! (sins can't spam DW, use a scythe, and spam SY! at the same time).

That said, however, even with these builds a derv will not outdamage or even outtank the sin. They have to settle for filling certain niches better than sins. That's all they can hope for.

So, in short, if you want to be a gimmick guy, go with the derv. But if you want damage and toughness (as most players do), you're far, far better off with a sin.

RadaArashi · May 19, 2009, 12:53 AM // 00:53

My opinion may be a bit biased as I have never touched a Dervish and assassin is my main.

So people have already presented the main builds such as
[Critical Agility][Asuran Scan][2 dagger skills here][Death Blossom][Moebius Strike][Save Yourselves!][Optional]
and
[Critical Agility][Aura of Holy Might][Way of the Master] scythesin

But there's so much more, you can also try grabbing a Spear instead of a scythe and change your role from frontline spiker to midline pressure, in RA I like to bring the elite skill Dark Apostasy to strip targets off their enchantments and pressure them with the spear's decent DPS, also with attack skills like Vicious Attack which has great synergy with your primary and Spear of Lightning.

You can also try the same with other weapons such as bow, but I'm personally not too crazy about it.

You can also switch to a caster role and bring Deadly Arts, I've vanquished and cleared many HM areas/missions with it, it's really fun! I like to take Assassin's Promise, Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support, Dancing Daggers, Entangling Asp, Signet of Toxic Shock, Finish Him and whatever utility my team needs.

There's more you can do with a dagger assassin, such as spike builds with Assassin's promise or use Golden Fox Strike, Wild Strike and Shattering Assault to assist your team in stripping block webs of enchants and stances from foes like in Arachni's Hunt, and that's about all I can think of for now.

russiansteven · May 19, 2009, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeAliX

My opinion? roll a sin.. what would better in PvE? totally depends on build..

I agree. sins are great at farming and I myself belieave they are better than dervs. But dervs are better looking than sins